T.B. Joshua: Leadership Secrets

Here are some excerpts from a two-part interview Prophet T.B. Joshua granted the ‘Daily Champion’ newspaper in March 2010. The contents are packed full of practical lessons of life and leadership, and mirror the prophet’s words this Sunday on the importance of love: “We are love’s products – the sons and daughters of love. Therefore, let love lead. Follow in the light of love.”

As you read, may you be inspired to love your neighbor as yourself, and make a difference as a leader by example in your respective community…

What is your take on the recurrent religious crisis in Jos?
As a clergyman, I don’t want to believe that the crisis has to do with issues about religion – there is more to it and it goes beyond religion. You need to go to the north and see the reception you will receive there; it does not matter whether you are a Christian or a Muslim.

Unless these people who are involved in this act are not living in the cities, except they are living in other places outside the cities. Don’t forget that Christians and Muslims have been living together over the years. So, it is surprising to hear that Christians and Muslims are killing themselves. Do you think that this can ordinarily happen like that? No, so it is not the issue of Christians and Muslims? This is purely political. There is a political undertone to it.

Can you elaborate on that, political in what sense?
When I say that it is a political issue, what I mean is political crisis in the country and how it has virtually affected every area of our lives. Look at the state of education in this country. Because of politics, look at what education is suffering in this country now! The university education today is not what it used to be in the past. The university we are used to is not the university that we are seeing today.

Even in the area of sports too, politics has also destroyed virtually all the areas of sports in the country. Look at how the game of football is going in this Nigeria. It is all political and it has also affected our image outside this country. So, let us remove the issue of Christians and Muslims fighting, it is purely political and by the time they go deep down to discover why the people are killing themselves, you discover that it is because somebody wanted to be in-charge or in control.

The issue persisted because some people want to be this or that; we should not use the issue of religion as a cover up in this matter.

Prophet TB Joshua

T.B. Joshua - If you don't know what it means to be poor, when blessing comes, you will not be able to manage it.

Are you saying that what is being experienced is as a result of bad leadership?
I will not say yes or no, but I want to take you back. When you talk about leadership, can we call it bad leadership? We have had leaders in the past without disciples. When you are a leader without disciples, you are alone and one person alone cannot rule.

But our leaders have long chain of advisers, ministers and aides…
That is what I am saying, leaders without disciples are what we have had in Nigeria for the past number of years now, we have been having leaders without disciples. So if a leader is good, without disciples, it is also bad.

Who then are these disciples considering the fact that we have ministers, many aides and special advisers?
I am talking about the cabinet. I am talking about the ministers. What does it take to be a good disciple? A good disciple must be a good reporter. A good reporter must be a good assistant who must report accurately and must be objective in his reports. He must be able to tell his boss the truth and nothing but the truth and if you give your boss a good and objective story and he rejects it, you can put in your resignation letter, which means that you are not a party to what he is doing.

If we have people like that around our governments, then things will change. Have you ever seen the president go to the market to find out prices of commodities, or how things are going there? The disciples are the ones going about to see true position of things. The cause of the problems we have in Nigeria is leadership without disciples.

How do we get good disciples then?
Before I will answer this question, I will like to go this way; Nigerian leaders have been using other people’s disciples for the past years. People that you don’t know, whom you have not worked with before are other people’s disciples.

Before you get to such a position of authority like the president, you are supposed to have a platform of meeting people, both privileged and less privileged. One does not get to such position of authority over night, it takes time and preparations and a leader without preparation will use others’ disciples to work for him and using others’ disciples always cause disorder in the society.

In other words, you are faulting the Constitution that allows for federal character and nomination of ministers from different states of the federation?
Let me come in here. There are core disciples and there are disciples. When you become the president of a nation like Nigeria, no matter the ministers they send to you to form your cabinet, you as a person must prepare your own personal team which may consist of five, six or 10 people who are on ground, their job is to go to different areas to monitor the ministers and give you the true report of what is on the ground. The federal character does not affect these people at all so far you use your own personal money to pay these people their wages.

You mentioned the effect of politics in our sports; apart from your football team, My People’s Football Club; recently in your church, an individual testified that you supported him to become a boxing champion. How did you develop this interest in sports, were you a sport person as a youth?
It is not that I have a special interest in sports but I want people to succeed as they develop their talents in whichever field, so that they can be successful in life.

Do you have any problem with the current political arrangement as a way out of our political logjam?
Nigeria knows the right thing and until they put the whole thing right, presently the referee cannot blow the whistle. But I want to say that God loves this nation. What is happening to Nigeria is meant to strengthen our desire for God and I want Nigerians to know that everything will gradually settle down.

When a situation like this occurs in a good nation, they pray the more and fast the more and draw closer to God but we have not achieved that. Have we drawn closer to God or are we still asking ourselves, ‘Why all these things?’

TB Joshua

If I say that I am Pastor T.B Joshua, it is a mere claim until that name is tested in a real situation.

Can’t we use the number of churches that we see around and Nigerians that are now turning to the churches as evidence that Nigerians are drawing closer to God?
Well, the position of God is not who worships Him but who worships him in truth and spirit. So let us look at the position of God that we are worshiping. His position is not about the number of churches or number of people that worship Him but His position is how many people worship Him in spirit and truth. This is the position of God.

If Nigerians worship God in spirit and truth, then we are worshiping Him – so the issue now is not how many churches but how many people worship Him in spirit, truth and faith.

Politically, I have said it before that there is so much hypocrisy in this country and that is part of our problems. Last time we talked about the crisis in Jos and wanted to relate it to religion. But if you look at the gathering of the political party like the Peoples Democratic Party (PDP) and other parties, you see Christians and Muslims sitting down together and eating at the same table.

In business circle, you see Christians and Muslims working together but when we get back to our places of worship, it is a different thing all together. Why do I say that it is a different thing all together? We should not allow this crisis to come up at all because our Bible made us to understand in Matthew, Chapter 5 that you should love your neighbour as yourself and your neighbour could be those who do not share the same faith with you, people that profess other religions.

Your neighbour could be your enemy. Your neighbour could be your friend – but the Bible says that you should love them all and pray for those who hate you.

So what is the solution…?
Just as the Bible says, we should hold love. Love is lost, let us look for it. We should not be talking about Christian or Muslim but we should look for love because love is lost, let us look for it.

Let us forget about being either Muslim or Christian; North or South, East or West. We should forget all those names, those names are just symbolic. God will not ask you whether you are from Igbo, Yoruba or Hausa,’ or whether you attend Redeemed Church or Christ Apostolic Church or Synagogue Church. God will not ask you any of such questions; the question will be based on righteousness. I repeat, love is lost and because of this love that is lost that is what is bringing up these problems.

Let me tell you about love. Love sees beyond hatred, it sees beyond religion. If you love me so much, you are not even going to care whether I am a Christian or a Muslim. Can you see that love is beyond religion? Love sees beyond geographical location or ethnicity. Love is the greatest of all the virtues.

A child of God is known by his love and not by the title he bears – that I’m a bishop or a pastor’ or I’m Joshua or that I own a big church or say that I am the owner of the biggest ministry in the world; those things don’t impress God.

If you love your neighbour, you will not like to speak evil against that neighbour. If there is anything that your neighbour had done against you, you will be looking for a way to help and do what is right so that your neighbour will be at peace.

What matters is the hope of glory. Whatever name we bear is symbolic. If I say that I am Pastor T.B Joshua, it is a mere claim until that name is tested in a real situation. I can say that I am T.B Joshua and no one will arrest me for that – it is a mere claim, until it is tested in real situation.

What is this real situation?
Real situation is a situation that you cannot pass through if you don’t have the grace of God. Trials, difficulties, persecutions hatred and intimidations are all part of real situations. I said this because a man may be a pastor by profession, but not such in heart.

Real situations are those situations, which, without the power of God, you cannot survive. It is what I mean by a real situation, it is not just any situation but real one.

Let us talk about your work of charity and your passion to reach out to the less privileged members of the society.
Whoever you see me caring for here, I was once like that. If you don’t know what it means to be poor, when blessing comes, you will not be able to manage it. I know what it is to be poor, I know what it is to be disabled and I know what it means to be an orphan and to be in need. I was once like that.

So, each time I see these less privileged members of the society, I remember those days when I had no one to take care of me. I always feel what they feel. I don’t know of any difficult situation that I have not passed through.

Talk about those who suffer unjustly for the crime they did not commit, those they lied against and persecuted. I know what it means. And when you know what it is to be poor, when you see people suffering poverty, you want to come to their aid.

Can you take us back to your early days and the nature of suffering you passed through?
If we begin to talk about it, we are not going to leave here today. I am a medium, an object that God has changed, in terms of needs or poverty; just name it, that is why I have to go down to raise people from their less privileged position by supporting them. I know that if God had allowed me to have a mentor, I would not have been in the position that I am today because I don’t know where the mentor would have started.

In fact, the mentor would have given up, it is only God that can take one from the scratch. Today, nobody is ready to take you from the scratch – they only want to take you when you are already made.

The church started with eight members. This is the fifth church. The first church was destroyed by storm, the second one was destroyed by rain. The third one was destroyed by Omonile before we arrived here. The whole thing is on record, including my school days. I attended seven to 10 secondary schools.

Why?
In most cases, there were no school fees and I resorted to sports. I was running 1, 500 meters and if I ran for my school, they would forget about the school fees – something like scholarship. But at a point I knew that if I kept running that I would not be able to concentrate on my studies.

I later started going for extra lessons; attending evening classes so that I could work during the day. I worked in many poultry farms and in some other places. Many of the poultry farms that I worked at are still there.

How do you manage the name-calling and criticisms around your person?
If you ask me how I manage persecutions and criticism, intimidation and foolish things, the question you will also ask me is how I manage the good side as well, especially when people praise me.

The Bible made it clear that in our spiritual walk with God, that there are good times and bad times alike. Have you not read about Job, when the wife was telling him ‘Can’t you deny God, look at the wounds on your body, look at the troubles?’

And Job asked her, ‘Can you eat salad, and when it is time for bitter leaf, you run away? You enjoyed the good times, but now it is time for another chapter.’ So, when you are able to eat salad, when bitter leaf comes, you should also chew it. If the question is ‘Why me of all these persecutions’, you should also also ask, ‘Why me of all these blessings’. God will never stop giving us reasons to praise Him.

TB Joshua

Each time I see these less privileged members of the society, I remember those days when I had no one to take care of me. I always feel what they feel - TB Joshua

Have some of these your persecutors ever come back to apologize to you?
I am not God. When you speak against a servant, you go to the Master and apologize. I am a servant and a servant cannot be greater than the master.

But do you forgive them as the Bible says we should?
A person who cannot forgive will not be entrusted with the power of healing or deliverance. This is why you cannot see healing everywhere. The person who cannot forgive his neighbour cannot be entrusted with power because he can use it against others.

There is power in our tongue, power to build or destroy. Look at what transpired between the Prophet (Elisha) and those children who were calling him bald head; he called bear to consume them.

What I am doing is not mine – the work of healing and deliverance is not mine.

Apart from the work of God, what other thing do you enjoy doing?
One life for Christ is all that I have and one life for Him is so dear. He is my joy, my working time and my all in all. So, which other work are you talking about?

How do you finance these projects that you have at hand and is the global economic crisis in anyway affecting your ministry?
Thank you very much for this question. Looking at the whole charity work we are doing in Haiti, My people FC, feeding the needy, assisting the widows and scholarship to the orphans, your question is how we finance these things.

The whole thing started in a little way. One thing I want you to know today is that it all depends on what you are giving. You can give what you do not need and you can give what you cherish most. You can give what your life depends on, but after giving, God continues the supply. If you give what you don’t need, God will continue to supply you what you don’t need.

Those things like used clothes or worn-out tyres, if you give such things then God will give you what you don’t need. When you give what you cherish, God will supply you what you cherish.

What we are giving out here are those things that we cherish and it takes faith to do that. On the global economic crisis, we are not giving out of wealth but we give as it comes. When we give out of wealth, then we can talk about economic meltdown.

Tell us the type of food that you enjoy most?
When you look at my stature, I don’t need to tell you because my body will tell you the type of food that I eat because the nature of my job does not permit me to eat anything that I want to eat. What I have to eat is not what I am eating.

I love African food so much but if I try it, it will collapse my system. So, I have to submit myself to the food that can carry my flesh because we also need flesh to carry on

The SCOAN Crowd

God will not ask you whether you are from Igbo, Yoruba or Hausa,' or whether you attend Redeemed Church or Christ Apostolic Church or Synagogue Church.

What then do you eat?
Well, I eat vegetables; I eat fish, meat, and chicken. I am not a vegetarian but I eat vegetable so much. I eat Asian foods also. Our African foods here attract comfort in the sense that immediately you begin to eat it, you begin to sleep and before you know it, you may even be sleeping while you are eating. Talk of pounded yam, egusi and ogbono and others.

When you are eating them, you forget that you still have much to do for the day, but to meet up with your assignments, you don’t need such. I used to advise our people not to eat something because you want to eat it, or because it is sweet, eat because of your health.

Do you exercise?
May be next time when you come, I will take you to my gym. When I wake up in the morning, I have to exercise – it is very important that I must do that.

SOURCE: All Africa
Daily Champion

  • My role model! It is true, with God nothing is impossible.
    Jesus loves all of us.

    I have enjoyed reading this today:
    LIFE IS ALL ABOUT CHOICE
    With all the fredom U have, to make any choice about anything U want; U still have no power to choose the results.
    When U choose life, U choose Jesus.
    The absence of Jesus equals death.
    To refuse to make a choice, is a choice.
    In this life U are allowed to change your choices & your new changes are respected.
    Going to heaven is a choice, & going to hell is a choice. Message by Dr TS Muligwe at Bethesda Bible Church in Brixton South Africa (Rhema Kingdom Life)

  • nuru Kanju

    Thank you for the blessing message God bless T B Joshua, from Tanzania

  • chalebgwa masalela

    God created all living things ,those living in water.underground .and on land and human beings with the same characters but speaking different languages ,different skin colour

    And from all his creations he never said this one is better than this or i love the people of this race ,this religion , this country more than others .Like the bible say , God looks upon those who woship him in truth and spirit, those who truly believe that Jesus son of god died for our sins and he rose from the dead .

    We should not waste our time on those religion fights . spend your time worshiping your god ,fighting evilness ,seek the truth from our bibles.Be prepared for the times of the revelations

    God bless all in jesus
    amen

  • Pastina

    Wonderful Man of God. May the Lord shine forth upon you. You really inspire me a lot by your humility.

    Emmanuel!! Praise the Lord!!

  • Ngozi

    I love you man of God, only that i missed watching you live on emmanuel tv for the past few months now, changing my life, touching my life with the astounding word of God from you and the wise men. Im so inspired by what God is doing in the ministry of SCOAN and emmanuel tv. May the good Lord increase your faith in Him, replenish your purse as you feed the poor and hungry and annoint you more and more to serve Him and humanity in Jesus Name. Amennnnnnnnnnnn!

  • Benjamin Mofokeng

    We rejoice in our sufferings,knowing that suffering produces endurance,character and hope.and hope doesn’t put us to shame.Rom 5:2-5.God bless u Prophet

  • Annie Eastman

    Dear Prophet T B Joshua,

    I admired your LOVE and HUMILITY and PATIENCE.
    I really thank God for your life.

    God bless forever.

  • Thank you for the inspiring article. As a Christian we are called to love our neighbours irrespective of different beliefs, colour of our skins or geographic locations. Thank Prophet for reveaving the true gospel.

  • Thank you for the inspiring article. As a Christian we are called to love our neighbours irrespective of different beliefs, colour of our skins or geographic locations. Thank Prophet for revealing the true gospel.

  • maria tito mnimbo

    I agree with you man of God.
    God is love, and we should love our neighbours like we love ourselves. God in heaven bless you.

  • cathrine

    EMMANUEL!

  • Busisiwe

    Thank you Prophet for your obedience to God almighty and your teachings may God continue to bless you. I thank God for the Scoan prayer request on line. I had 2 prayer request that i submitted and i received answers to both of them within a short period of time I am so greatful to God Almighty and Thankful to him.
    May the lord Jesus continue to bless the faithful staff at The Scoan and Prophet’s family and every one who is praying for Prophet faithful in Jesus Christ Mighty Name Amen.

  • Thank you for inspiring article.iam blessed pray for me so that i can be one of givers in the Lord God , the article is tanching so much, you are doing great work people of God .May Lord containue blessing the church as all and the T.B Joshua’s familly.
    I always praying for Him the t.b.joshua know why is doing that to the less pliverege it is because he has passion for suffering of the people, like Jesus what did us all. may God bless you all. AMen.

  • Patrick Pillias

    To God be his glory. We keep praying for your protection through this trying times. Let the Lord Almight show his favour and mercy to all those who love him. In God we give all the glory!

  • Ngwana Mashudu.

    Man of God. You are really from God to make His work fulfiled. Thank you very much. I luv u. May our good Lord continue to bless you in the highest. Emmanuel!

  • irene francis

    God bless u a man of God.and i thanx God becouse realy everday when i received and read message from you i get something and a big thing is obedience from you.may God bless u.and remember tanzanian people.especiall youth.

  • Thank you so much man of God for clearing people’s minds. There were so many stories about your diet. Many thought you were a vegetarian, others even created foolish stories about it. Praise God for having explained on your diet. May our good Lord richly bless you.

  • Fernando Muvuma

    This is a living example and lesson that a every person should follow and indeed practice

  • yemane mahray

    May God bless you Man of God tb joshua. I Love you so much bc you totaly imersed or controled by the Spirit of God & tell the nation the true Gospel of Jesus christ in action. this is the word of God that manfested through you. B/c the bibile tells us if you have true faith the glory of God manifest through you wich is faith in action. I alweys wach you since 2007 & I alwey thank God.

  • Thembi Makamba

    Prophet TB Joshua you have touched many people worlwide – mostly me! You have made me see so much light in praying and worshipping God, I used to find it as a difficult thing to follow, you make as easy as abc! I also like the way you describe “love”, everything you do is through love and you reallly practice it. Some churches make it a family thing in leadership positions but look at how you have raised the Wiseman! You really make the world know that God is for everyone not one family in church leadership positions! Call it transparency… I like it when I see your wife seated in the congregation like anybody else, so humbly. MAY THE GOOD LORD UPLIFT YOU HIGHER AND HIGHER IN HIS WORKS!! Thembi Makamba

  • Akpah Francis in Portugal

    Man of God, Snr Pastor TB Joshua, the world at large is seeing the wonderful works of Jesus Christ that you have been doing. And some of the true follower’s of your teachings are emulating you in many ways. I strongly believe that the best is yet to come. Remain blessed forever.

  • Prince Anastacio

    What a Nice Feeling to be in Luv… with GOD! No Pain, No Tension, No Disappointment. Just Blessings & Joy! Do it with all Ur Heart. Prophet TB Joshua God Bless U Always!

  • TB Joshua is a true Man of God.,An instrument in his hands.May the Almighty richly bles and Annoint u more and more,and ur family be blesd 2.Plis!.Pray for me-remember me in ur daily prayers.EMMANUEEEL!.

  • TB Joshua is a true Man of God.,An instrument in his hands.May the Almighty richly bles and Annoint u more and more,and ur family be blesd 2.Plis!.Pray for me-remember me in ur daily prayers.EMMANUEEEL!..

  • loveth Gabriel

    Iam Loveth! An orphfan who stays in Zaria Kaduna State.

    Please I want Man of God to pray for me and my family.please Man of God I want you to help me,I want’s to go back to school but I have no one to stand for me.I have anbition.God Bless you.

  • mkhululi mpofu

    Before I formed you in the womb I knew you
    before you were born I set you apart;
    I appointed you as a prophet to the nations.”Jer1:5
    God purposed your life and the wisdom and understanding He unvailed to you, may he continue to increase you wisdom and works and power in the Lord Jesus.
    By watching emmanuel tv I have received Blessing from your teachings and I testify God is using you mightily for the glory of HIS Heavenly Kingdom.
    You have revealed to me true love as the Lord commanded, I thank God for using you unto our salvation.
    Stay blessed

  • shakin bankole

    The best is yet to Come

  • raymond oges

    may God continue to bless you and bless me too in Jesus name. Amen

  • Doctor Gondwe

    good conversation

  • AWUCHA KALU

    I really thank you prophet TB Joshua your really true man of God i pray that God should give you more more years in your life, what your doing in people life is beyond human comprehension, once again your wonderful you are too much your impossible, i can imagine if we have people like you at-list 10 in Africa, our nation Africa will be no more poverty may God bless you more and more in Jesus name were ever you are now you must know that Awucha kalu igwe and son Igwe Kalu love’s you once again thanks you for being my spiritual Gods father

  • rodgers b chama

    love know no record of wrong!

    Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever who ever chooses jesus has life.i thank GOD for men of GOD who are standing on the trueth of the gospel.

    my prayer is GOD to expand the teritories of your true sons and daughters so that more can see your glory and believe and be saved. thank GOD for humble servants he is using .may the glory of GOD continue to higher and higher in jesus name.

  • PFC

    Emmanuel – God with us. If God is with us who can be against us. God Almighty has anointed Snr Prophet TB Joshua as his servant and friend. What an inspiring conversation, which I am sure other leaders will follow. I love you Snr Prophet through your teaching my faith kept on building up.
    The wise men are becoming more wiser and their faith is lifted up each day there are able to see what is unseen with the naked eye and there are praying for women who have over due preganancy and they deliver their babies normal without operation. The wise men will see what God Almighty has stored for them. Praise and thank God Almighty for his wonderful work, he is doing in peoples life through the wise men. Better is not good enough but the best is yet to come Thank you Lord Jesus. Amen

  • EMMANUEL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Nyasha

    Wow!!! So Inspiring!!!
    Thank You!

    • MAN..MAN OF GOD………………

  • T B Joshua is my prophet among prophets.I pray that he lives long to continue to bless us with his inspiring messages and deliverance and healing sessions on Emmanuel TV which happens to be my second church on weekdays on TBN.

  • I’m really blessed by the way God uses you and by also what we can learn from all tha testimonies that we can find in your web site, I think you should make dvd’s of theses testimonies and pread them around the world. I wish i can talk to you or have contact with you.
    God bless you

  • Rose B

    I always fill blessed whenever i watch Emmanuel TV and see how God is capable and able by using our Father in Christ T B Joshua and wise men, i wish one day to be there and i know i will get my deliverers. Amen. from Tanzania

  • FABIENNE K.KOUMBON AND PRINCE ALIAS 2PAC….. FOM LOME TOGO

    HAPPY BIRTHDAY TO YOU ! MY NUMBER ONE PROPHET!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Emmanuel!!! what a wonderful anointed man of God!! i call TB JOSHUA my number one prophet the greatest the world have never seen after Jesus and his disciples, the book of act has come to reality! and i have seen it feel it and testify it today no more alcohol in my life because of the anointing water,GOD will continue to strengthen you and your wise men day after day,and all your children,i pray that one day i might interpret in FRENCH in SCOAN even if it will be for 5 second that’s my greatest desire in life,,,God protect you for me man of God may you live long more than the oldest man in the bible, mummy Evelyn Joshua i did not forget you you are the greatest woman among women the chosen one may you be bless as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    My life have meaning today just because of you man of God and your touchable powerful word of God ……!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Amen
    Greetings from LOME TOGO
    Emmanuel to you all

  • what an inspiring man .u are my mentor please pray for me and my desire

  • acho terry

    Thank you Jesus for making us one of the prophet’s children.May the good LORD increase your faith in Him, replenish your purse as you feed the poor and hungry and annoint you more and more to serve Him and humanity in Jesus Name. Amen

  • Reblogged this on moisebanda.

  • Kittelia Chihururu Munemo

    You are a real Man of God, no-one has ever did what u have done, your kindheart has touched so many lives. I pray that God grants you all you desire in life

  • hillary

    the grace of the lord is with us as he says “believe in me and i will establish you and also believe in my prophets and you shall prosper

  • buba andrew charles

    I love the responds of the man of god to all the questions been ask. He is indeed a servant of god.I pray that may your richesses never be cutdown in jesus name

  • Prophete TB Joshua tu es quelqu’un que DIEU a choisi depuis le ventre de ta maman tous les jours je suis Emmanuel tv et je sais que par toi j’aurai ma guerison au nom puissant de JESUS.

  • Rendani Theophilus

    What a nice words of God